Wednesday, February 04, 2009

Don't Make Me Slam You Into A Wall

When we owned our insurance agency, it was not unusual to have people come in to buy insurance reeking of alcohol. It also wasn't unusual that the drunkards would already have one or two DUIs on their record.

I wouldn't insure them. Even Greg wouldn't insure them when they were obviously still drinking and driving. I cannot tell you how many times we kicked people out of our office. Sometimes I would do it subtly by pretending I couldn't find the rate I quoted them, and apologize while walking them to the door.

Other times subtle tactics didn't work. I can remember a particularly vulgar drunk that called me every vile name you can think of and refused to leave. Greg would always let me handle things on my own, but after the guy got in my face, Greg came thundering up to the front of our store and "helped" him outside.

After Greg slammed his head into the wall, he threw him out the door while screaming, "Don't you ever hit her again!", just to cover our bases in case the cops came.

When the drunk picked himself up off the ground, he sat outside our door for a few minutes bellowing, "You're setting me up, man. You're setting me up!"

Greg informed me that if the cops actually came, he might have to punch me in the head so we wouldn't get sued. This was a pretty average day for us.

Now I could have legally insured that guy. He was eligible for license reinstatement and I could have taken his money. I could have insured every drunk who walked through our door. But as a professional, I felt I had a moral and ethical obligation to not help someone like that get back on the road.

I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night.

You would think doctors would hold themselves to the same ethical and moral standards as a lowly insurance agent. For instance, if you were to go into a plastic surgeon's office after dozens and dozens and dozens of surgeries, and you looked like this,



wouldn't you think a doctor, a professional, would just say, "NO! NO! NO! I won't do any more surgeries on you. You are sick. You have mental problems. I can't help you. You are beyond help."?

Then maybe the doctor would slam your head into the wall before throwing you out of his office. Because making someone look like an alien is WRONG. It shouldn't have to be a law. As a doctor, you just shouldn't do it. You shouldn't take the money. You should just know Better.

In case you have been living under a rock this week, you might not have heard that the mother who gave birth to the octuplets is single, lives at home, has THREE sets of twins already, and worked at a fertility clinic. She conceived all of her children via sperm donor and IVF, and I repeat, has three sets of twins already. She now has fourteen children under the age of seven.

They don't even make a pill for that kind of crazy.

It's clear she has some serious mental issues, where she's actually trying to collect children like one might hoard cats. Her own mother says there was no stopping her. She had it in her head that she was going to have twelve children and she was going to have them no matter what.

So what I want to know is where was the professional in this mess? Where was the doctor, who when asked to put back all eight embryos, should have said, "NO! NO! NO! I won't do any more transfers for you. You are sick. You have mental problems. I can't help you. You are beyond help."?

Then he should have slammed her head into the wall and threw her out of his office.

It shouldn't have to be a law. Fertility doctors should just know better. They should hold themselves to a higher moral and ethical code. You shouldn't put eight embryos into someone who clearly can get pregnant over and over and over.

You shouldn't do it because it's WRONG. It's just WRONG.

But you know what? It happens all the time. We just don't hear about it, because then the doctor scrambles and talks the woman into selective reduction. There is no regulation on the fertility industry in America. Unlike all the other industrialized countries in the world, in America, if you could find a doctor who is willing, you could put back 20 embryos if you wanted to.

I say it's time for regulation. If it takes an extreme example like this to call attention to the entire industry of ART, then so be it. It's clear by the number of women coerced into selective reduction in America, and the continuing explosion in high order multiple births, that doctors are unwilling and incapable of policing themselves.

There must be a limit set for the number of embryos allowed during a transfer.

I never thought I'd say that. But there it is.

Maybe Greg really did punch me in the head and I just don't remember.

23 comments:

  1. Phew, that's a hard one. I agree with you, though.

    On the other hand, I can also see the point of avoiding making specific regulations.

    Is it possible that we can regulate moral obligations??

    At the very least, the doctor who allowed her to have 8 more, was ethically wrong, and isn't there already a code of ethics that docs are supposed to follow? Aren't there legal actions to be taken based on that already?

    And if so, do we really need more regs?

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  2. I couldn't agree more!!!!

    Who is the freak in the picture? Scary!!

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  3. Amen, sista! I feel the exact same way. Regardless of her marital status or number of children already, this woman is clearly not well and should not have been treated.

    That said, on Larry King Live, the doctor who coordinated the delivery said she only has one set of twins and four singletons (which in my opinion is much worse since she not only got pregnant three times previously but FIVE times). That's what you get for using Fox News as a source! LMAO!!!

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  4. This whack job has apparently hired a publicist to help her explore the financial opportunities available to her now. Books, movies, product endorsements, etc.

    She is going to be disappointed as most companies will cut a WIDE BERTH around her, she is NOT a good example of parenting.

    I wouldn't be surprised if many or all of those poor children wind up as wards of the state eventually. So very sad.

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  5. Pann- the thing we have to remember is that ART's goal is to help people unable to conceive on their own to have A baby. The goal has never been to produce multiple babies in a pregnancy.

    We are the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have restrictions on the number of embryos that can be transferred. In Europe, you don't see the selective reduction or high order birth problems.

    Unregulated doctors use selective reduction here to "fix" the problem of tranferring too many embryos. They have no incentive to STOP putting so many in.

    It's time to protect women by not putting them in the position to either go forward with very dangerous risky pregnancies or kill some of their babies.

    The industry needs to be cleaned up.

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  6. Anonymous8:00 AM

    Oh, I wish you had sold those drunks some insurance anyway, because it might've helped the people they hit. In my line of work, I know that a suspended driver's license and lack of insurance does NOT keep those idiots off the road. Not at all.

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  7. Misti8:21 AM

    Michele,

    Remember most super high order multiples aren't a product of IVF. They're usually the result of unregulated clomid cycles, sometimes using injections. (J & K +8)

    Check out some of the polls on TC.

    PS - It makes me cringe that I did unsuccessful cycles with my OB where he wasn't watching follicle count by ultrasound.

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  8. I saw a show this weekend on the E channel about celebrities with plastic surgery issues and that lady in your post was one of the main ones they focused on. She's downright scary. How can she look in a mirror every day and NOT think she looks insanely scary?

    As far as the lady with octuplets, she's high on crazy juice. With 2 sets of twins, I'm barely functioning coherently on most days. She really needs to have her head examined. Tim and I were talking about this case last night and we remembered how Dr Sher panicked when we told him we wanted to transfer 4 embryos. He totally freaked out and said absolutely not. He wanted to only put back 2. We compromised on 3 but he made us sign a waiver. The dr who put back 8 embryos should have his medical license taken away, IMO.

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  9. Anon- I realize that there is no way to stop a drunk driver from getting behind the wheel and driving. However, by not insuring him, I prevented him from licensing and getting plates for his car. Sure. He drove away without plates. But the liklihood he'd get pulled over was a 100 times greater. Had I gave him a free pass to register his car, then I would have been contributing to the problem. I also prevented him from keeping or getting a job as a driver. I may not have been able to keep him out of a personal auto, but I sure as heck wasn't giving him permission to get behind the wheel of a 20,000 pound gravel truck either. The other problem is that in our state the state minimums for liability insurance is 15/30/10. That's hardly stitches or a bumper, when he presented a risk that could be catastrophic. That's why I counseled my clients to have the right insurance on their own policies to protect themselves from people like him. When you insure yourself, you should assume everybody that hits you will be inadequetely insured, if at all.

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  10. I completely agree about the regulation. When we did IVF, we told the doctor that we only wanted to create 3 embryos since we didn't want to deal with freezing leftover embryos. Well, the RE put me on the same dose of meds that all of her patients get. It was like a factory. Everyone was also put on the same schedule to make it easy for her to do all of the retrievals on the same day. She also did limited monitoring. Well, I ended up producing 34 eggs! I had severe hyperstimulation, ended up in the hospital for a month and had 17 liters of blood plasma drained from my abdomen. I almost died. We tried to go back and sue the doctor but unfortunately since there are no regulations for reproductive medicine, we didn't have a case. I have never felt pain like I felt during that month. The pain from my triplet pregnancy was nothing in comparison.

    So yes, I completely agree that there needs to be more regulation on both the medicine side and the ethical side.

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  11. I am so glad to hear someone with multiples speak out about this woman. Everyone else in the country is thinking "holy crap" even before we found out about the other six kids. I realize that regulation may be a touchy subject for many of your readers but along with regulating how many embryos that can be put back into a woman the insurance industry should be mandated to allow more attempts. I know.. keep dreaming.In a normal situation I am sure that high muliples born after IVF are usually due to the fact that most people only have one or two trys and then the insurance runs out.
    In the case of the Octuplets... I am curious to know if she has insurance, who is paying for the nanny that was on the news, why the parents didn't report her to child services and get her some help! I heard all the baby brands are staying away from this one and not donating... makes me sad because it is the babies that are going to suffer...its just sad all the way around.

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  12. Michele S for President in 2012!!

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  13. Angela11:24 AM

    i agree with you...somebody should have been monitoring this ladies motives and there should be some regulating of reproductive docs. It borderlines with ethical questions though...should the government or doctors tell mothers or families how many children they should have..a lot of people would fight against that. Another thing..did she get this done in Cali or did she go to Mexico to get the IVF....

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  14. Oh my goodness. All day now I'm going to thinking about what it would be like if Michele were president!! Could I be Vice President? I'm as qualified as she is....

    Leslie

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  15. If Michele is elected to office I will volunteer to be her stylist and personal shopper so she will have something new and fabulous to wear on the cover of LIFE magazine. Wouldn't it be so sad if she had to wear that sleeveless black shirt AGAIN!

    XOXO!

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  16. Anonymous12:38 PM

    That woman in the picture is the "bride of Wildenstein". That is what everyone in NY called her. Supposedly, she loved big cats and wanted to look like one.
    I agree about some regulation needing to be done with IVF. IMHO, people can choose to have as big of a family as they want, but please don't go the high-risk route with so many embryos transferred! My clinic considered it a failure when they got me pregnant with triplets because they knew it was risky for me as well as the babies. That doctor should have his license revoked.
    -Melinda

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  17. Did you hear she's trying to sell her story to Oprah and the likes? She wants to share her parenting advice and wisdom with the masses. She'll be the new Jon & Kate. Only she'll just be The Crazy Octuplets Lady + 14.

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  18. Just another part of what is wrong with this country, lack of morals and ethics. I couldn't agree with you more! How about those lenders not the banks, but the actual lenders that told all these people they could afford the payments on houses they could never afford. How the banks are crumbling, and why? Because of all these defaulted loans, and the market too, of course. It's unbelievable how many homes in our neighborhood are in foreclosure, and since we're for sale at a reasonable price, we can't compete with these cut and run bank foreclosures. It stinks! What ever happened with the slum house!?!?

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  19. Helene E.S.,

    Thank GOD you're going to dress Michele! Though I'd really enjoy seeing how many days she could wear that black shirt in a row! Wouldn't Saturday Night Live et. al. have fun with THAT!

    Leslie

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  20. I'm wearing that black shirt RIGHT NOW. LMAO!

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  21. No you are NOT!!! LOL! When Helene said that, I just about died laughing. I want picture proof.

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  22. What the heck!

    This is further proof that I have been living under a rock. She has THREE sets of twins already?! Oh Dear God. With people like that out there, if I ever were to get pregnant with sextuplets, my reality show "Charlie and Jen plus TEN" would seem BORING.

    Did you know that I didn't even know about the recent plane crash in the Hudson River until a week after it happened?

    It's a BIG rock.

    Granite, I think.

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  23. ...and what about insurance reform. if the providers would insure fertility treatments (to those that can't have a child) then doctors would not have as great of need to put more than one embryo at a time. surely a reduction in multiple birth costs would come close to paying for the extra IVF cycles.

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